?

Log in

Clarke and Gaiman - Extraordinary Occurences in York: An Appeal to the Friends of English Magic.
Links Official 'Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell' Website February 2010
 
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
 
 
 
 
 
 
mortician:
stonesofyork
'Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell' Discussion
Wed, Jul. 4th, 2007 01:38 pm
Clarke and Gaiman

Just read The Duke of Wellington Misplaces His Horse, and was wondering if anyone had any idea just how tied Clarke's mythic England is to Gaiman and Vess' Stardust universe.  With the inclusion of Wall, it's pretty obvious that she's looking for some connection, I'm just wondering how deep it's supposed to go. Is the Fairy of Stardust the same Fairy as JS&MN?  Thoughts, theories?

Current Music: John Walters, The Descent of Innana

20CommentReplyShare

oenone_borealis
oenone_borealis
Songs of Exposition
Wed, Jul. 4th, 2007 08:28 pm (UTC)

The two examples are rather similar. In fact, the sidhe present in the brugh seem to be the aristocracy which correspond to the merchant class in Stardust. I'll give LOGA another read and perhaps more insights can be gleaned.


ReplyThread
saffronlie
saffronlie
Lady S
Wed, Jul. 4th, 2007 09:32 pm (UTC)

I'm not familiar with Stardust (although having heard about the new film, I now want to be!) but I don't think Susanna Clarke would have been consciously trying to work off another modern writer's work. I don't remember Wall in JS&MN (I think I'm due for a re-read) but isn't it possible that Wall or other similarities would stem more from their common English background?


ReplyThread
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Thu, Jul. 5th, 2007 05:18 pm (UTC)

Clarke did indeed write "The Duke of Wellington Misplaces His Horse" for a Stardust-tribute anthology entitled A Fall of Stardust, I believe.


ReplyThread Parent
saffronlie
saffronlie
Lady S
Thu, Jul. 5th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)

Oh, I had no idea we weren't talking about JS&MN. Thanks for that!


ReplyThread Parent
birdpooka
birdpooka
birdpooka
Wed, Jul. 4th, 2007 10:34 pm (UTC)

I think that the JS&MN Fairy could work in setting found in Stardust, although they aren't entirely the same thing. In that particular case, Wall, is a cool concept and it may have been a one-time borrowing thing, seeing that the two writers seem to be friends or something


ReplyThread
ningloreth
ningloreth
ningloreth
Wed, Jul. 4th, 2007 11:54 pm (UTC)

Yes it is Gaiman's Wall. I went to a talk by Susanna Clarke. She said that Neil Gaiman had shown an interest in JS&MN whilst she was still writing it (it took her 10 years) and that he had encouraged her to write a short story. My memory is a bit hazy, but I think it was written for a volume of Gaiman-inspired stories, and if you look at the fine print at the front of The Ladies of Grace Adieu, it says that 'The Duke of Wellington Misplaces his Horse' was previously published in A Fall of Stardust.


ReplyThread
ilovedragons
ilovedragons
Lady of Grace Adieu
Thu, Jul. 5th, 2007 03:44 pm (UTC)

Neil Gaiman's Fairy is very different to Susanna Clarke's Fairy, mostly because it has little hairy creatures and evil lords and fallen stars that come to life and so on, whereas Clarke's Fairy just has... well, fairies. :D

I seriously recommend you read some Neil Gaiman stuff, if not Stardust, then one of his collections of short stories (Smoke & Mirrors or Fragile Things), because he's simply brilliant. :D And I enjoyed his Sandman comics even though I usually don't read comics, so I'd recommend them as well. [/booknerdy rant]


ReplyThread
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Thu, Jul. 5th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)

I never read very much into it - Fairy is such a universal concept in English and Celtic story that it's only logical that all the artistic interpretations of it spill over into common ground.

The one possibly dodgy Gaiman/Clarke connection that I like to theorize about is the similarity between the Raven King and Gaiman's Morpheus. :)


ReplyThread
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Thu, Jul. 5th, 2007 05:31 pm (UTC)

(I should hasten to explain that I don't read very deeply into that one, either - it is not at all my belief that Clarke necessarily purposely drew on Morpheus as inspiration - I just enjoy thinking about it.)


ReplyThread Parent
ilovedragons
ilovedragons
Lady of Grace Adieu
Fri, Jul. 6th, 2007 08:26 am (UTC)

I never thought of the similarity between the Raven King and Morpheus! Good one :D


ReplyThread Parent
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Fri, Jul. 6th, 2007 11:15 am (UTC)

It was from the one footnoted story about the country girl (I think) who encountered him in a ruined tower filled with ravens - the description just set off a MORPHEUS bomb in my head. XD Pale, wild dark hair, black ragged robes, and of course the ravens (well, singular for Morpheus)...


ReplyThread Parent
slavetothemuses
slavetothemuses
Musings
Thu, Jul. 12th, 2007 09:07 am (UTC)

Nah, Morpheus is such a moper while John Uskglass seems to have a practical sense of humor! ;)


ReplyThread Parent
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Thu, Jul. 12th, 2007 04:57 pm (UTC)

SOOO true. But John Uskglass' little attitude problem in the Cumbrian charcoal-burner story really made me think of Morpheus. :D


ReplyThread Parent
slavetothemuses
slavetothemuses
Musings
Thu, Jul. 12th, 2007 06:41 pm (UTC)

True enough for that little episode, yes ;)


ReplyThread Parent
mortician
Nixie Nevers
Thu, Jul. 5th, 2007 07:27 pm (UTC)

Part of the enticement for the connection is the fact that, all told, we really know very little about Clarke's Fairy. Remember, what we've seen directly is the domain of Lost-Hope under the reign of the gentleman with the thistledown hair. Given the taking of Christians into Fairy, and the like, there's every possibility that Septimus' family, et al, are present in Clarke's realm.

Granted, Clarke's vision is much closer to the traditional British interpretation, as seen, for example, in the Blue/Yellow/Green/... Books of Fairy, while Gaiman's is much more is typical mythological smattering. Keep in mind, I'm not saying in the least that Clarke has based her realm whole cloth upon the Fairy see in Stardust, but I do see how the two would mesh nicely. It's really quite gratifying to see three (Clarke, Gaiman, Vess) of the foremost authors of contemporary fantasy playing so well together. Now, if we could get Mieville and De Lint into the mix, that'd be a damn fine stew.


ReplyThread
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Fri, Jul. 6th, 2007 11:16 am (UTC)

Mmmm... Miéville. Fairy/New Crobuzon mix would be insane goodness.


ReplyThread Parent
mortician
Nixie Nevers
Fri, Jul. 6th, 2007 07:06 pm (UTC)

Drawlight so shoulda been Remade. Strange describes what should be done perfectly...


ReplyThread Parent
eluneth
eluneth
Emera
Thu, Jul. 12th, 2007 04:58 pm (UTC)

Slakemoth vs. magician showdown?
(sorry, this is getting silly. but I really am curious now!)


ReplyThread Parent
mortician
Nixie Nevers
Thu, Jul. 12th, 2007 11:55 pm (UTC)

Pretentious, anal Magician begins violently vomiting and the slake moth starts dinner...


ReplyThread Parent
mortician
Nixie Nevers
Sat, Jul. 7th, 2007 03:47 am (UTC)
Few random points

Stardust takes place in the modern day. Wall is a place out of time. Very much in keeping with traditional fairy stories.

Hairy little gentlemen, evil aristocrats, pegasi, and cloud pirates all could be themselves fairies. There's no real defining apprearance for fairies, regardless of what Amy Brown would have us believe. Again, I point to the fact that we get a very brief and specific glance at one realm in Fairy in Clarke's novel. Take a look at some Froud or Ditterlizzi.


ReplyThread